Dean Ornish on Charlie Rose Show

(Charlie Rose himself was recovering from surgery and the program was hosted by Dr. Mehmet Oz, a cardiac surgeon.)

With them were Gary Taubes, author of the N. Y. Times article referenced on this web site, and Dr. Barbara Howard, a cardiologist representing the American Heart Association. 

Dean was, as always, well spoken and dealt convincingly with Taubes' arguments.

Far more succinctly than my point-by-point rebuttal elsewhere on this web site he made all the points that appear in that rebuttal. Taubes repeatedly cited unproven claims that Atkins' diet is safe and effective, while claiming that Dean's arguments lacked scientific proof. 

Dr. Howard was well spoken and calmly reiterated the fact that Gary Taubes has misrepresented the position of the American Heart Association. They argue that:

• It is not fat OR carbohydrate that is responsible for obesity--it is the intake of excessive calories, whether fat or carbohydrate.
• The "epidemic" of obesity is due to eating too many calories and having insufficient physical activity.
• A healthful diet should include moderation in intake of meat and fats. The carbohydrate base of the "food pyramid" has been misunderstood to mean principally pastas. It should consist of a variety of fruits, vegetables and whole grains.
• Excessive protein is proven harmful to health, causing increased stress on the kidneys, dehydration, osteoporosis, etc.

Dean pointed out that contrary to the impression given in Taubes' article, there is ample proof that people can stay on his program, do lose weight, and keep it off. While neither he nor others argue the fact that the Atkins' diet will cause weight loss, he emphatically states that it is a harmful way to do it. "You are mortgaging your health in the process."

While Mr. Taubes argues that only fats stave off hunger and therefore can cause reduced consumption, Dr. Howard and Dr. Ornish both pointed out that complex carbohydrates, whole grains, fruits, vegetables--carbohydrates containing significant quantities of natural fiber--are absorbed more slowly than sugars and simple starches, and both satisfy hunger and avoid the spurts of insulin secretion and triglyceride spikes which are major factors in in heart disease and depositing body fat.

Mr. Taubes repeatedly stated that proof that fat does not cause obesity, but carbohydrate does, comes from the fact (not disputed) that obesity has increased at the same time as the percentage of fat in the diet has gone done. Drs. Ornish and Howard both pointed out that the percentage of fat went down but the absolute quantity of fat in the diet actually went up, as Americans continued to consume large quantities of fat in addition to increased quantities of simple carbohydrates. Except perhaps for Mr. Taubes, everyone agrees that increasing caloric intake will increase body weight.

Mr. Taubes is a newspaper reporter. He is clearly not a scientist. His uncritical thinking was amply demonstrated in his defense of claims by Dr. Atkins' supporters that have never been published in peer-reviewed medical journals and his denial of evidence which was quoted from reputable journals.

I will make no comment about his need to interrupt both Dr. Howard and Dr. Ornish repeatedly, except to suggest that he seemed uncomfortable with having either of them complete a thought that disagreed with his position.

I have a full tape of the broadcast which we may share at a future meeting.